Supernatural and long-running shows

[fannishliss]

If I'm figuring correctly, Supernatural will be tied with Smallville for Longest Running SF show (besides Doctor Who) at the end of next year!!!
s1 & s2 = 22 each
s3 = 16
s4, 5, 6,  = 22 each
s7, 8, 9 = 23 each
s10 I suppose will be 23.
= Total: 218.
Currently, the "North American" record for longest running SF show is Smallville, with 218 episodes.
Next, is Star Gate SG-1 with 214 episodes over ten years.  In third place is XFiles with nine seasons.  I am surprised to see that Star Trek the Next Generation only ran for seven years, and Highlander for six. And of course Buffy for seven.

If you have been a fan of long-running shows, what do you think of how Supernatural compares, in terms of how it has maintained Sam and Dean as steady leads, while rotating other important characters like Castiel, Bobby, Crowley, and beloved guests like JDM, Ruby, Meg, the Harvelles, Garth, the Ghostfacers, Jody, Charlie  (once you start listing awesome SPN characters, it gets hard to stop)?

In Star Gate and in XFiles there was turnover amongst the leads -- Daniel ascended and was gone for a while right? and in XFiles, Scully and Mulder took a back seat in the last two seasons.  What about on Highlander?   Next Gen had pretty steady leads, but was a huge ensemble show (as were Voyager and DS9).  Buffy remained fairly steady over seven years with Buffy, Willow and Xander always together as a team, right?  And of course, over the 50 year history of Doctor Who, there have been at least twelve Doctors and dozens of companions.

Supernatural has held my attention like no other show, all because the Show focuses on the troubled relationship between the two brothers, and the choices they make as they try to Save People while Hunting Things.    Such a simple premise, but so astonishingly fruitful!

I think another thing SPN did right was the way it incorporates the playfulness between brothers into every episode.  I laugh and cry by turns watching Supernatural.  I love them SO MUCH.  My son, who is 13, has been watching Show since 2007-- half his life.  Star Trek has my huge respect (the Federation flag is MY flag), and I love Doctor Who, but Supernatural just rivets me to my seat, year after year.  Not even XFiles or Buffy ever owned me like this.

Part of it, as I mentioned above, is the way SPN succeeds in creating amazing guest characters, like the Nun from the recent ep.  Star Trek was originally pitched as Wagon Train to the Stars... I think SPN is similar in that we are introduced to side characters and really care about them by the time they leave, even over the course of one episode.  SPN is a detail-rich show, where every actor (according to lore at cons) is made to feel like they really matter, and they DO.

What do you guys think about Show culture and why it has succeeded so well?  I also just have to say -- Serge Ladouceur.  Cinematography on this show is just stunning.  And who heads up set dressing, because they freaking RULE.

Um, I'm up for S11.  Just sayin!

Comments

[bleodswean.livejournal.com]

I am soooooooooooo happy for you, Liss!!!! *jumps around* I do think that SPN has found a formula that has defied all the tv odds. It's truly in a class of its own now. As you know, the Show lost me after Bobby. I do think that I will return to it when I can give it a proper binge watching.

I think many shows lose their center when they go on and on and on. I think SPN has lost this center many times over but as you've said here, the show is ultimately about Sam&Dean and these actors just ooze chemistry and charm and I think they and the characters carry the show entirely. And yep, the fun factor. :)

I have begun to prefer artier shows with a very clearly arced story from beginning to ending - Breaking Bad, American Horror Story, Fringe....over the nighttime dramas, supernatural though they may be.

I think it was Buffy, actually, that made me realize that a show really can be taken past its stale date and everyone loses. That is NOT happening currently with SPN but it's come close...

[fannishliss.livejournal.com]

I drifted off to have a love affair with the Ninth Doctor and everything Eccleston has ever done... but then I came back. :D

I was a huge XFiles fan, but really, my love for SPN makes XFiles look weak in comparison. I trailed off from Buffy as well, so I never really witnessed that slide.

I am very happy for you as well with your enjoyment of Hannibal. I don't think I can go there. I did watch Silence of the Lambs all those years ago, but cannibalism is really too much for me... just the threat of possible cannibalism and I'm mentally leaving the room. shudder. It seems to be a taboo I can't shake. :P

Bobby meant so much to me as well. So much like my own dear departed Dad, who was a ballcap-wearing farmer/mechanic/pilot/autodidact. Did I ever mention that to get to my inlaws house you literally have to drive through a junk yard? They are back to land folks and have a nice patch of ground.. the junk yard guys do patch their road every so often. :) My own Dad was a hoarder of junk... old vehicles mostly.

Spiritually, Bobby's absence resonates through s9. He played a key role in 9.1.... nutshell, Sam felt Bobby's support in self-determination, while Dean is muddling through without that guidance.

[bleodswean.livejournal.com]

OMG, your icon is making me weepy!!! Why are we like the only two grrls who realize the utter PERFECTION that was Eccleston's Doctor????????????????

It's good to hear that the show keeps the spirit of Bobby alive. He was a central character and the moral compass.

Heh, yeah, junkyards are such a vital part of some men's psyches. Your dad sounds like he was my type of human being. *hugs*

[fannishliss.livejournal.com]

I have several whovian friends who are huge Eccleston fans. One in particular makes me look like an Eccleston novice. :)

Here is young Chris as a Babe. :D

You must have seen Shallow Grave?

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I've watched other shows over the years - all the Star Treks (apart from Enterprise, that never grabbed me), Babylon 5, Dr Who, Blake's Seven, Morse, Sherlock, Alias Smith & Jones, Stargate and Stargate Atlantis but nothing has come close to the impact SPN has had on me. I never entered a fandom before, never wanted to. But our little show that could has grabbed me from the start and never let go, even through the dodgiest of moments. I think it's Sam and Dean, it's the actors, it's the attention to detail and certainly the cinematography and sets are fab. But mostly it's actually the fans that have kept me going, all the meta, the discussions, the art, the fic and the endless creativity.

[fannishliss.livejournal.com]

I think it would be interesting to hear someone like Mark Sheppard talk about how fans differ across Fandom. He's been in everything. So I wonder what his perception is?

I'm actually writing a song for Fandom. I'll let you know when it is done. Hmmm, check back, I think I will make a post for the current draft. :)

SPN has never really lost its hold on me... except the Leviathan year.... that was the one year I felt like so much was torn from them, I wasn't sure how they could really keep standing. But there was never a moment where I was over it... ever since I got hooked on this show post s2 I have been Happily Obsessed about it. :D

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Mark always says he's a fan himself. If I get to eat breakfast with him again at Asylum 12 I'll ask him!!

[fannishliss.livejournal.com]

Holy cow yes! and don't forget to share your con report! :D

I first loved him as the firestarter on XFiles all those years ago. He was so magnetic in that role. And then of course as Badger on Firefly. Supernatural gets the most wonderful actors on board.

I've always loved that they went with Crowley as a tribute to Good Omens, and that they cast a Brit to stay true to that. Mark never fails to bring all his talent to the screen -- it's just one more component of SPN's greatness. :D

I feel like a lot of folks don't get that Abaddon as an Old School demon harkens back to Good Omens as well?? Supernatural owes a lot to Neil Gaiman...

[verdande-mi.livejournal.com]

Interesting post; got me thinking and pondering!

The core relationship is of course the sibling relationship between Dean and Sam, and that’s what carries the show, but for me Supernatural is at its strongest when there is more of a focus on other characters as well. The show is much richer when the boys interact and have relationships with other people (will forever miss Bobby). I don’t believe I would have kept up with show if the continued focus and plots surrounded Dean and Sam alone, in an endless monster-of-the-week loop. I prefer the longer story arcs than the monster of week episodes and I prefer learning more about the relationship between Dean and Sam, and the two as individuals, through other people - friends/family/allies/enemies. It’s one of the reasons why I prefer seasons 4 and onwards to the first three.

I do feel 10 seasons is enough for SPN. That said I will not be ready to let go regardless I think of how many seasons they make. I’m too invested by now.

I have seen all of SG-1, but didn’t follow it when it was airing and I think a chance of cast was needed as the show needed a breath of fresh air. Besides SG-1 the shows I’ve watched with the most seasons are The Closer (7), Doctor Who (new) (7 + specials) and Lost (6). The Closer feels longer to me because I’m watching Major Crimes which is the same show really, with a slightly different cast and feel to it. So If I count Major Crimes and The Closer in one we’re up to 9 seasons and that has been no problem for me and I look forward to more, and don’t doubt there’s stories to tell.

It’s the same with Doctor Who and Lost. I never have/had any problem keeping attention and interest, if anything I will say both increases as I get to know characters better and we dwell deeper into what makes them tick!

Genre-wise The Closer/Major Crimes are the odd ones here, but all the shows have this in common:

The castings are wonderful, and not just for the core cast/leads, but recurring and one-off characters as well.
They all have an ensemble cast (exception SPN, but in some ways it still feels like it does). There’s been more than one change in the casts, new characters come and go. I like getting to know new characters as they always bring something new and add lights to new things about the show and its main characters.
The writing, acting and cinematography are overall great. I will mention here that flashbacks, time-travel, fast-forwards and timey-wimey are often wonderfully used in SPN, Doctor Who and Lost and the stories is made all the richer for not being a straight line from a to z.

There are unexpected things happening; twist and turns and surprises. I’m often at the edge of my seat and I’m often left with my head spinning because they went somewhere I hadn’t imagined.

I like a mix of drama, adventure, high stakes, quests, mystery, humour, heart-breaking and heart-warming moments, mythology, friendships, teamwork and love. I need to believe the characters feel what they’re supposed to express. I need to care what happens to them. Indifference is just the worst.

[fannishliss.livejournal.com]

Yay, thanks for your lovely long reply!

I am also a Whovian. I actually am an old whovian, watching episodes the Fourth and Fifth Doctor on US public television here in the 80s. Nine is "my" Doctor tho! :)

Who is the juggernaut when it comes to long running shows, followed of course by Star Trek, which is practically an industry within itself, with the original series, all the movies, the novels, and the FOUR spinoff series. With Star Trek, the idea is "to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go!" I actually still get all stirred up when I hear it. Star Trek (as originally conceived) is a peaceful mission, an ambassador mission of humanity to the universe, and as such it embodies this incredible utopianism. So we meet many Star Fleet officers, but we know that the code they are held to is the very highest code, and we are ready to participate in judging them! :) To me, Supernatural is a war mission, the boys were brought up in a state of war and trained as warriors, so the tension for them is how to "Stop It" -- whatever trainwreck the world is currently headed for. So there are always new threats because there is always some hostile power headed for a takeover.

The Brotherly bond is so important to the show... and it's really interesting to me how so many fans have always been willing, like Dean, to throw everyone else under the bus when that bond is not made paramount. I was a Lisa shipper, and so many folks said, "Dean can never be happy with Lisa, he can only ever be happy Hunting with Sam." That to me is a stagnant philosophy... it actually hems in the potentiality of the show, and makes it less interesting.... because a huge part of my empathy for the boys is my desire for them to Stop It and get out. My least favorite season turns out to be s7, only because it is internally the most hopeless, the Leviathan threat is so crushing and so pervasive, that the boys really didn't have any hopes left, even tho they managed to prevail. The reveal of the Bunker was interesting, because it offered a sense of home for the rootless boys.... but now the bunker has been defiled by Kevin's murder, and it's the site of the boys' deepest estrangement. Sad! -- but it does manage to keep their dynamic moving...

and of course Crowley and Cas are currently the characters who provide outside tensions to make things move along.

I feel like characterizations on the show are usually pretty strong, and that helps me care. Making a SuperWho comparison -- Abaddon may be a bit one-dimensional as a big bad -- but no more so than Davros. :P

a mix of drama, adventure, high stakes, quests, mystery, humour, heart-breaking and heart-warming moments, mythology, friendships, teamwork and love -- yes, that pretty much sums it up! it's so amazing that we can get all this from Supernatural!!

[verdande-mi.livejournal.com]

You’re welcome :) I guess it’s safe to say I have a hard time expressing myself in short passages!

Beyond the new films I am not overly familiar with Star Trek outside of popular culture. But you’re absolutely right of course, Dean and Sam are definitely on a war mission and have been conditioned for that since very young. And this gives the show an entirely different feel than Star Trek which has a much more hopeful look on humanity and the future.

I liked Lisa and had no trouble with her and Dean, and I’m still sad she and Ben got their memories wiped. I understand why Dean wanted it, but still, heart-break! I so very much agree with you regarding the boys settling down and being free of the hunting world, and I think I want the show to end on a note that at least hints to something positive and happy for them.

I also agree season 7 was heavy because, as you say, the situation for the boys and the world were so utterly hopeless. Still for me, season 3 is the heaviest season and I almost didn’t make through because of all the angst. (I probably should do a re-watch and she if I still feel the same as I did when watching it the first time around.)

The introduction of the bunker and Men of Letters storylines has been great, and I believe the bunker will become more of a home again as the relationship between the boys solidify again as I am certain it will eventually.

[fannishliss.livejournal.com]

s3 has several big high points for me :

Mystery Spot
Jus In Bello
Ghostfacers (I am pro Ghostfacers)

and also introduced Lisa in the Kids Are alright
and there was also Bad Day at Black Rock.

So even though s3 was very heavy I kind of adored it.


I still have hopes that there might be a surviving cell of the Men of Letters. Surely they didn't centralize to the extent that they were all taken out? that would be poor planning... then of course there were always the rabbis. :)